Is this a natural Discus?

bjornik
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Re: Is this a natural Discus?

Post by bjornik » 31 May 2008, 21:16

Heiko Bleher wrote:Hi,

I am sorry to answer so late, but I did Interzoo 2008 – have a look ate http://www.aquapress-bleher.com and the Interzoo biotopes.

The fish from the mentioned site is NOT from the Nanay. It is a S. haraldi (blue-brown) from almost anywhere in its distribution (see my book – and I wonder that there is still a discus lover who does not have it...). As I mentioned in it: I found S. haraldi's with 8 up to 16 bars. That is found in several aras of their distribution and not limited to anyone to my knowledge. They mis constantly, and you have it also in the aquarium breeding variants. The so called "snake-skin" is a S. haraldi and can have also 10-16 bars.

Anyhow, those are not discus which are found in large quantities in nature, there are always some in between, as I have shown.

All the very best,

always

Heiko
http://www.aquapress-bleher.com
Thank you very much Heiko!
You give me very much new information in your wonderful book, but some time I wonder and in this issue you give me very good answer. I have been working with Discus since 1971, but you give me new information in your book I have been wonder for many years, very often in every pages. I have never sine a book about nature and animals like yours, you have given a big contribution to history and the description of a biotope how can be destroyed and disappeared in may be the next generation. Your book is a testament of the nature we know today with your knowledge’s. I inside me I crying when I think this stupid Humans working in Amazonas can destroy may be the garden of the Eden for the world and the humans . It is hard to think about this, but the interest for the Discus gives me this information. We need explores like you, thank very much for what you gives all of us.
Best wishes from Norway
Bjørn Johan Kirksæther
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Heiko Bleher
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Re: Is this a natural Discus?

Post by Heiko Bleher » 01 Jun 2008, 16:18

Dear Bjørn Johan Kirksæther,

I am very honored and thank you very, very much for your nice comments. Such appreciation makes me always try to make it even better, simply because I like to give out as much as I can and much more detailed than others. I simply love fishes (and plants) and nature, and also history, there I think all has to go together to open up the eyes of people worldwide...

Thanks again (and maybe now one understands why I have not finished vol 2, because as much work and detail in it...).

best regards from sunny Italy, always

Heiko
http://www.aquapress-bleher.com

bjornik
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Re: Is this a natural Discus?

Post by bjornik » 01 Jun 2008, 19:25

Hello Heiko!

The first to breed discus in Norway I sure was Alf Julius Næss the owner of the big aquarium hatchery in Trondheim, Norway. He was buying 4 discus at Aquarium Hamburg November 1956. December 1957 the couple was laying egg for first time. After this he had many youngster of discus. In December 1959 he writes that he now has had 37 times with youngster from this couple. His firm was exporting very much aquarium fish, especially Discus to Germany in the 60thes. In 1971 I got 4 of his discus fry.
pic1.jpg
pic2.jpg
All this years I have wounder where the orgin of this variant of Discus is in Amazone. Is it the Belem region? Do you know about the early Discus coming to Germany when Næss got them in Hamburg.

Best regards

Bjørn Johan Kirksæther
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Tommy
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Re: Is this a natural Discus?

Post by Tommy » 01 Jun 2008, 21:17

Really nice fish bjorn, what is the name of that discus? Have you breed them self?
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Heiko Bleher
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Re: Is this a natural Discus?

Post by Heiko Bleher » 12 Jun 2008, 17:43

Hi Bjørn Johan Kirksæther,

this is really great information (should ad it to my volume 2 and give you credit...). You mean these photos you have shown are still from that strain? Those are positively Tocantins brown discus (S. haraldi), and they were shipped from Belém. You can see, they still look very similar to the ones in my book (only a little darker in my book). And unfortunately I never knew about Næss, but naturally everything about Aquarium Hamburg (in my volume 1 is a little about the Aquarium Hamburg history and first imports, more in volume 2).

There was NEVER EVER found a discus in the Belém, area (same as never in the Madeira, Rio Branco, etc.).

But thanks for this information and maybe you can send me high res photos of these.

Best regards

Heiko
http://www.aquapress-bleher.com
Now the Polish Championships is inserted, and much more to come about Poland next week.

bjornik
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Joined: 26 Apr 2008, 18:55
Real Name: m,gjkgjkl

Re: Is this a natural Discus?

Post by bjornik » 15 Jun 2008, 19:23

Heiko Bleher wrote:Hi Bjørn Johan Kirksæther,

But thanks for this information and maybe you can send me high res photos of these.

Best regards

Heiko
http://www.aquapress-bleher.com
Now the Polish Championships is inserted, and much more to come about Poland next week.
Hello Heiko!

Thank you very much for your answear.
The picture is send to your; aquapress@aquapress-bleher.com.

I wounder if you know about breeders and history of discus in CCCP and Russia. My wife is russian and I have try to get information when I have been i Russia, but so fare I have not found so much.

Best wishes from Norway

Bjørn Johan Kirksæther
Den naturlige Discus
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bjornik
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Re: Is this a natural Discus?

Post by bjornik » 16 Jun 2008, 13:57

bjornik wrote:
Hello Heiko!

Thank you very much for your answear.
The picture is send to your; aquapress@aquapress-bleher.com.

I wounder if you know about breeders and history of discus in CCCP and Russia. My wife is russian and I have try to get information when I have been i Russia, but so fare I have not found so much.

Best wishes from Norway

Bjørn Johan Kirksæther
To day I found this intresting link in your pages about russian breeders.
http://www.aquapress-bleher.com/index.p ... &Itemid=43
Den naturlige Discus
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Heiko Bleher
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Re: Is this a natural Discus?

Post by Heiko Bleher » 26 Jun 2008, 15:23

Hi,

just a fast note:
we have also another Russian breeder (the biggest now): Igor:
http://www.aquapress-bleher.com/index.p ... &Itemid=56
on our website under Special events
have alook. Also at all the news we placed this week and the (discus)Biotopes (now finished).

best regards

Heiko
http://www.aquapress-bleher.com
http://www.aqua-aquapress.com

bjornik
Posts: 173
Joined: 26 Apr 2008, 18:55
Real Name: m,gjkgjkl

Re: Is this a natural Discus?

Post by bjornik » 03 Jul 2008, 14:16

Hello again Heiko!

I hope it is possible to disturb with a question again. This time I look one the taxonomy of the Discus. The new way gives a better and more clearly view on the spices of Discus for me;

Symphysodon discus (heckel discus)
Symphysodon aequifasciatus (green discus)
Symphysodon haraldi (blue/brown)

But my question I relay about all this human made variants of Discus. Often I see in internet, magazines and sometime books that they use S. discus and S. aequifasciatus for this human made variants of Discus. I wonder is this correct?

I am so confused about the offspring of these human made variants of Discus so it is difficult for me to see the origin of them.
I feel that this human made variants is better to give the label; Symphysodon species.

Is this a correct way to see it?

Best wishes from Norway

Bjørn Johan Kirksæther
Den naturlige Discus
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Heiko Bleher
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Re: Is this a natural Discus?

Post by Heiko Bleher » 10 Jul 2008, 15:08

Dear Bjørn Johan Kirksæther,

sorry again the late answer, but I am so busy, for lectures and also my two remote Amazon expeditions in a few days...are you coming?

Anyhow, almost all of the tank breed variants in the hobby around the world and those mutants are from S. haraldi, very few (only the red spotted) are from S. aequifasciatus and practically none is from S. discus – except the so called Heckel-cross and all Asian so called S. discus are from Heckel-cross or just wild blues. You see the S. haraldi was always the most easy to breed, since before World War II (coming up in volume 2), simply because this species is found in the most similar water parameters as to the rest of the world. Therefore everyone breed those. Green were always much more difficult and Heckel-discus, well you know...

Unfortunately, spite of my book and the Symphysodon revsion from last August, which should help (but not all read, as you do), people around the world still mix up scientific names.

All the best

Heiko

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